Rethinking the Bus Idea

September 11th, 2008 • Related • Filed Under

We’re very, very close to giving up on the idea of a bus for the Big Trip. The three reasons we want a bus are (1) Safety, (2) Storage and (3) Space (for both living and shooting GeekBrief.TV). Buses with the right specs, though, are beyond our reach without going into pretty deep debt. We’ve heard stories of bus owners selling great buses at prices dramatically lower than what we’re willing to pay, but we can’t find any of those deals.

A bus with the right specs are priced in the range of a house. We could have gotten a mortgage on a bus, but a lot has changed in the mortgage market over the past few months. Lenders are less willing to take risks and lending money for an asset with declining value is a risk lenders are unwilling to take unless we had a house to collateralize the loan.

We’re looking at a van and Airstream combo now, where the van serves as the studio/work space and the Airstream serves as the living space. The benefits? No debt, flexibility and efficiency … that and Airstreams are just cool!

There Are 49 Responses So Far. »

Comment by Bradley McSpinn on 11 September 2008:

Sounds like a GREAT idea, guys! I think you’ll be much happier this way, too. There’s a lot to be said for the separation of work and “home”.
Comment by joduba on 11 September 2008:

Hi Cali,

Also I think is a good idea, because the BUS is great for long distances, but when you will be in a given location, having an small van that you can detach from your “house” it will be practical

You will be able to go to the next village cinema with it instead of taking a taxi, or public transport.

Smart!
Comment by Robotman on 11 September 2008:

A no brainer, as far as I’m concerned. I’ve been thinking all along that this is the way you should go! Cheaper is better, why not just get a nice campervan? And you can always pick up a trailer if you find you do need one along the way.

Even cheaper, just get the van, then do the show from all the geekbriefers houses along the way. :)
Comment by George Drage on 11 September 2008:

Cali and Neal I think that is a wonderful idea because when you go to places and cities and have meet ups you will be bringing and van and basically that will the the Geek Brief studio on the road
Comment by Scott Koegler on 11 September 2008:

Well Cali and Neil - Observations from my experience:

1 - I would have guessed Airstream… why? You’re a Mac enthusiast! They really are in the same genre.

2 - I know that I suggested this before, but… take a serious look at the 5th wheel / Pickup combination. The van/traveltrailer is exactly the combo we have, and with a 32′ camper and 18′ van, there are issues about length and pulling (even with the Hensley Arrow hitch) that add stress to the driving experience.

I recommend that you look at a 4-door pickup so you don’t feel hemmed in while traveling. Also look for a “Toy Hauler” 5th wheel. The back end where the ‘toys’ go is perfect for a studio. you can even soundproof the walls without giving up on living space. The 5th wheel is also a lot more friendly for storage of gear and generator in the ‘basement’ area. Putting a generator in either the van or traveltrailer is not fun, and neither is really built for that.

Lots of other ideas from our last 6 week road trip, but thats plenty for now.
Scott
Comment by potroast on 11 September 2008:

Newer Airstream units are nice too and retain excellent resale value. Plus you can go to Burning Man and stay cool! ;)
Comment by Richard Hyde on 11 September 2008:

Shame to hear you’re having to re-think the dream :-( Having the van/caravan combo does have the advantage of being able to leave “home” set-up somewhere and explore in the van. But caravans are a drag (’cause they’re towed, get it? never mind)

Would a RV be an option?
Comment by honkerdown on 11 September 2008:

Cali -

I have to agree with the points the Scott Koegler makes. 5th wheel trailers are much, much nicer to tow than travel trailers. There is a reason that style of hitching system is used for semi-trucks.

A “toy hauler” style would be great for you guys as it can have a huge area that can be used as your studio, and can be had with a built in genset.

That all said, Airstreams hold their value very well, and take the punishments of travel very well.
Comment by Vince Green on 11 September 2008:

Cali,
20 years in the car, heavy truck and construction industry bring about the perspective that follows …
You have a dedicated and defined purpose. ie: go here, go there, carry this gear over that amount of time.
Cost per revenue dollar should be the key benchmark. Profit or investment (aka. loss) it should be the benchmark.
You don’t sound like RV ownership is your goal so you should be talking with leasing companies about a defined contract. eg. One year, so many miles, return condition, insurance, etc.
Return the unit and move onto your next project.
Ask yourself what business are you in. You don’t buy a plane for a flight to New York … over the top analogy and not at all defendable but just using it to make the point.
You should find plenty of opportunity to such a program in the RV community around you. There may be individuals who own and rent them typically short term who may look at long term.
This may give you the option to split the Big Trip up as you take a 1/2 term with an option. Lots more options with the rig as a tool.
I am sure you’ll get cutesy and name it and care for it. That’s the fun part which comes however you contract for transportation.
You have options to look at. Good Luck.
Looking forward to your work and reports from the road.
Comment by Chris on 11 September 2008:

No Debt = No Contest

I’m in a bit of debt right now, not fun at all.

As much fun as a bus can be, sometimes you just have to get moving. If this is what you can afford then go for it. You will be much happier moving forward.

As a bonus after the big trip is complete both parts will still hold value and applicability in your lives. An airstream is a great toy to hold onto for years to come, and a small mobile studio! Imagine what you could have done with geekbrief over the past few years with that studio.

I foresee you keeping at least one if not both of the toys when you are done the trip.
Comment by Atlantic Wave Radio on 11 September 2008:

You so need a big white Apple logo on the side, just make sure it peels off for that visit to Microsoft :-)

Where do you get a Mag Power Supply that big tho?
Comment by rosborn on 11 September 2008:

as someone who’s used both, one thought might be
the practicality of actually driving either one.

i’m not sure what class they’re considered in,
but buses handle really good on the road. however
if you want to simply do a u-turn and turn around,
you must find a LARGE empty parking lot. (IE - denny’s or bob evan’s)

airstreams are very comfortable living spaces, but sometimes
can be very difficult to navigate down the highway.
with crosswinds, they can be twitchy. most people i
know who did it comfortably, had large, overpowered/
underweight towing vehicles. (IE - a large 4×4
king-cab pickup)
Comment by dave on 11 September 2008:

But the big bus for the big trip idea is so cool! You can’t give up on the big bus! And besides hauling an Airstream around is sooo last millennium. BTW maybe you could get a big time sponsor like Apple or GoDaddy to pay for it in part in exchange for a big ad on side of the bus? Or perhaps you could do the NASCAR thing and get a whole bunch of sponsors, with each sponsor getting their own decal? And just like with the NASCAR car ads, value is added to the advertisements because every time someone posts a photo or video of the bus on the internet, that’s more exposure for the advertiser. And if the bus should get on the evening news…bingo!
Comment by Andy Renk on 11 September 2008:

Hi Cali, Airstreams are definitely cool! The bus would be the way to go, but you are smart not go into big debt for it. Start small this way and then on Big Trip 2.0 you can go BIG.

When I was a sale engineer years ago I had to drive a 40′ BlueBird product demo bus around the country to visit client locations. By the end of my year on the road, I could parallel park that sucker. It was a lot of fun for sure.

I love the idea of getting big corp sponsors to get the funding for the bus/trip. Nobody biting on that?
Comment by Jude on 11 September 2008:

Great minds think-a-like!

Picking my ‘78 up Saturday…
http://twitpic.com/ayvl
Comment by Marty on 11 September 2008:

Having just sold my Class A for a loss. I would defiantly looking to a van trailer arrangement or 5th Wheel. Just make sure that if you go for a van/trailer, the van is rated high enough to pull the trailer. Have Fun
Comment by Duke on 11 September 2008:

Cali-

I’ve always thought that a big bus was “too much” in every way for the big trip. Not only the purchase cost, but also gas/diesel, maintenance, parking costs, and mobility.
I agree with two others above, the toy haulers are probably the best way to go. I live in Alaska, and I just finished a weeklong hunting trip with one of those toy haulers. The back has a huge area to fit in two ATV’s, trailer, dirt bike and all the hunting gear. It’s completly seperated from the living area, which is very comfortable as well. It tows well with a 4-door pickup, although your van should have no problem either. We towed it on dirt roads, gravel and paved roads. It worked really well. I think that’s a great solution for you guys.

Either way you go, I’m looking forward to see you in the biggest state in the nation.
Comment by Toneroo on 11 September 2008:

I have to agree with the folks suggesting a 5th wheel. While not as stylish as an Airstream they are way more functional. The “toy-hauler” type are perfect for what you want to do. Lot of space (12-18′ ceilings) a large door for getting gear in and out and for reporting when the weather is nasty. Plus you have a significant amount of living space.

Good to see that you two are continuing your research first, buy later process. You are setting a very good example for everyone else out there who might make a rash decision and regret it later.
Comment by Scott Koegler on 11 September 2008:

Our van is a Ford E-350 with a 1-ton upgrade, and the V-10 (gas) engine. Ford stopped putting the V10 in vans a couple years ago, and with diesel fuel being so expensive, I would recommend looking for a big dual rear wheel pickup with the largest gas engine you can find.

We averaged 9mpg pulling the 11,000# camper. That’s heavy for this size (32′), and I’ve seen many 5ths in the 8-9,000# range.

Best part of this for you, is timing. It’s the end of the camping season, and many owners simply didn’t camp this year because of finances. You should be able to find very good used rigs over the next few months. Even better if you can find one already set up as a matched set. There’s a lot to be said for getting a used set aside from price. People have likely already done a few upgrades and improvements.

RVs are like computers… you’ll always want another add-on.

Scott
Comment by Steve Jones on 11 September 2008:

I was one of those recommending a 5th wheel some time ago and I think you’ll be better off. We have a 5th wheel for towing horses with an LQ and 5 in the family and we do OK in the truck. Being able to drop the trailer to go to dinner or grab ice, is very, very nice.

I know you two are in a slightly different market, and with a different focus. I’ve never had a Class A, and while they look cool and it’s nice to be able to move around while you’re driving, there are a lot of negatives. Not the least of which is the price. Going into a lot of debt isn’t necessarily worth it, IMHO.

There are some larger vehicles you can use to tow a 5th wheel that would give you some good space inside. I’d look at the 450/550/650/750 series from Ford or even a Mega Cab, that can give you lots of room inside. If you can find a good used commercial vehicle, you might even get one with a configuration where you can remove the rear seat and put one seat back there for working.

Glad you’re still working on the project, and I’d love to see more updates, even if they’re stream of consciousness, half-baked ideas.
Comment by jamey on 11 September 2008:

Please, please make double sure that what you get can pull the weight of the trailer / 5th wheel you get.

Vince Green makes a great point.
Comment by Craig Shipp on 11 September 2008:

I paid $39,000 for my Blue Bird bus four years ago and it has been great. Some might want a bigger bus but I like the 31 footer. The bus is in great shape and I’ve had no issues with failures. You can buy a 40 foot wide body non-slide Bird for about $100,000 and you would have a lot more room. Feel free to contact me anytime as I have a lot of experience with Blue Birds and I know the best units to buy.
Comment by Rick Ankrum on 11 September 2008:

I see these combo rigs with an International truck chassis with an living compartment (not an RV) box on the back pulling a trailer. This seems to be a favorite of the carnival crowd. This gives you some flexibility. You could put the studio in the trailer with an A/C unit.
Comment by Lloyd Woods on 11 September 2008:

Ahem,
That it what I told you to do in the first place. The you can go anywhere.
Comment by Ben Willis on 11 September 2008:

Airstream’s designs are freaking awesome! I always wanted you guys to get one. Thumbs up all the way!
Comment by Andy McConnell on 11 September 2008:

I second Rick’s idea above. Put the studio in a trailer and let the tow vehicle be your living space. If I were you, I’d consider a “Class C” motorhome. These are motorhomes built on a van chassis, with the original cab. The big advantage is, any mechanic can work on them. And motorhomes do break down. Usually in Timbuktu! Have you considered how much it will cost to go to an RV mechanic? Windshields will get chipped. Can the local auto glass shop get a new window for a bus as easily as a Ford E450 van? A motorhome on a van chassis will also be easier to learn to drive. And if, in a year you decide you want more living space and are comfortable driving a big vehicle in 40mph cross winds with a trailer, sell the Class C and upgrade to a Class A motorhome or bus. Plus, you’ll still have your studio, ready to go.
Comment by Brady Friedrich on 11 September 2008:

Hey guys,

Although I do not recommend you guys going into deep debt, I’m not sure this is the right option for you. I see how it is better money wise, and kinda better flexibility-wise, but is there really going to be enough space to work? Are you willing to give up on the bus idea after all this hard work and research you’ve put into it?

In my opinion (I’m not professional of course), you’d be better off waiting a year or two to get the money you need so you can have what will make you feel comfortable than being in such a rush that you end up something that doesn’t suit your needs.

Thanks For Listening,
Brady Friedrich
Comment by Rene on 11 September 2008:

I don’t want to be the odd person out here, but here goes. Not being in debt is ideal. But I personally think that Airstreams are far too impractical for fulltime RVing. Sure, they’re cool, but their storage space sucks, and have you seen the showers in them? For vacations here and there, they work. For living day in and day out, I’d go nuts bumping my head on those curved ceilings. Also, towing trailers is a drag, literally.

I’m all for cool, but as a fulltime RVer, I’m glad hubby and I went the 5th wheel route. Their easier to pull, have better living space, and we get great gas mileage from our biodiesel powered Dodge 2500.

Ok, I’m going to back off now, but as someone who’s lived on the road for over a year now, I just had to chime in with what I’ve learned. Thanks for listening.
Comment by Corey on 12 September 2008:

hey at lease with a bus/airstream combo later on down the road you could go on Vacation.. even to Canada.. so it would be great for that.. and you still have a van if ur car quits
Comment by Sean and Louise on 12 September 2008:

Cali and Neal,

Rich Luhr over at Airstream Life is a reader/friend of ours. If you end up going the Airstream route, we’ll hook you up. And, of course, we’re happy to help with the technical details of the van and trailer mods you’ll end up doing, even though it’s not a bus :)

-Sean and Louise
Comment by Pat F on 12 September 2008:

Even with a bus, or Class A RV, you are going to want to pull a dingy. (i.e. a small car for getting groceries in town).

I would think that a Class C RV with duals, pulling the studio trailer may be a winner. Or E350/450 diesel. You should consider a 5th wheel rig with a crew cab’d pickup. None of these “small tow vehicles” are actually any fun to drive, and a F350 dually Crew Cab is pretty far from “small” in any normal sense.
Comment by macroron on 13 September 2008:

Cali and Neal,

May I suggest you start a wiki/microblogging affinity group relating to “The Big Trip”.

Priority one:

If everyone interested in buying an RV and actually acting on their own “Big Trip”, pooled their influence together in a “coop type community”, we might be able to influence and save considerably if we purchased from one company “Together”.

This could be the start of a true mobile community of people cooperating to achieve their goals.

-macroron
Comment by Louise on 13 September 2008:

I know you are not making any of these decisions lightly, and support you whatever direction you choose.

As Sean said, we stand by our offer to help with the technical details of RV living, no matter what the vehicle. Life on the road is sweet and fascinating; see you there!
Comment by Murph on 13 September 2008:

I think you are on a much better track now, but I want to pile in with the others that are recommending the tow vehicle be the living quarters and the trailer be the studio.

The convenience of living in the same vehicle you are driving cannot be overstated. Need a cup of coffee? Make one. Need a Red Bull for the long haul? There is one right there in the fridge. Need a sweater for the evening chill? Get it out of the closet. Been driving 20 hours and need some sleep? Just pull over in the appropriate place and crash.

Also, it may be obvious and its only an illustration but the very nice Sprinter conversion is not up to the task of pulling that largish Airstream behind it.

If I recall correctly from the Barney discussions you were not going to have a huge amount of space in the bus for the studio, so I would encourage you to keep the studio trailer as small and light as you can. The smaller the trailer the better off you will be. If you thought as much about weight and bulk as you put into electrical analysis with Barney you might be something a Sprinter could tow, like a teardrop!

Good luck
Comment by Snoopy007 on 13 September 2008:

I think the Bus is the best bet; however I also believe Dave Ramsey is right debt sucks. We just need to find you a sponsor, they grow on trees right ;)
As for the towing I have drive may miles with many trailers. The 5th wheel pull the best by far, just wait till you get in a tight spot and need to turn around. The weight is just disturbed more evenly, its simple physics the weights closer the vehicles center. I would recommend a diesel, forget the fuel price it’s more dependable and has better resell. My last commit on towing is watch your transmission temp…
Keep working toward your goal it, will happen when the times right.
Comment by Quentin Karmark on 14 September 2008:

this comment follows along my suggestion in the other thread: have you approached a dealer about a sponsorship for a unit/set-up? Brand the heck out of it (vehicle wraps) and promote the tour - and the multitude of amenities - like crazy? Add Biodiesel etc. Green RVing is a huge concern to the industry, given the rise in energy costs - folks are less and less inclined to hit the road due to the expense these RVs consume.
Comment by Larry T on 15 September 2008:

I wouldn’t give up on the bus idea, i think though it would cost more, it would be a more comfortable, versatile, and ergonomic way to go! I agree with the others, get some big sponsors on board to do your outfitting and upgrading, circuit city? best buy? apple?

Don’t make it a medium trip, make it a “BIG TRIP!”
Comment by Quentin on 15 September 2008:

well said, LT - go BIG or go home!
Comment by Vic on 16 September 2008:

Cali - you guys REALLLLLY need to check out this website. This WOULD be the PERFECT addition to your Airstream.

http://www.earthroamer.com/tab_xpedition_vehicles/vehicles.html
Comment by Erick Blandin on 17 September 2008:

You’ve probably seen this already but at PAX Bethesda had a nifty Airstream for their game Fallout 3, and I hear they are donating it to Child’s Play Charity as an auction item. No idea what it will go for, but it would be worth watching if it would meet your needs.

http://kotaku.com/5043998/bethesda-donating-amazing-fallout-3-airstream-to-childs-play
Comment by Larry T on 18 September 2008:

I was really rethinking this, and I looked at the airstream and the camper thing too… It’s just too small for a long road trip like you plan. What could be better than walking around, using the bathroom, standing up and stretching at full height, while someone else is driving. In the long run, I think it would make you both less fatigued and more able to make it a working and living environment. Can you imagine how many times you’ll have to pull over to get something out of the back of the airstream because you forgot something in the back and needed it in the van? I also think that somehow you could get some major coverage somewhere on the conversion you are planning, tape it, go thru it step by step, put that sucker on “Pimp My Ride!” hahaha :) The possibilities are endless!

Just my 4 cents (since my comment was so long!)
Comment by Toneroo on 3 October 2008:

Just noticed Airstream now has “toy-hauler” version -
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/02/airstream-unveils-toy-toting-panamerica-trailer/

Might be the perfect match for the Big Trip.
Comment by Clint on 9 October 2008:

With a van and airstream you can leave the airstream at a campground and go into town and parking is easy with a bus… Not so easy!! I’ve driven busses a couple of times across the US and they are not that much fun to drive at all it gets old real quick!!
Comment by Wade Schriner on 21 October 2008:

Have you thought 5th wheel you get more room when you add slides and the tow Vehicle has alot more power if you go diesel.
Comment by Dave Peterson on 26 October 2008:

New plan: You get pilot’s licenses and take this on the Trip:

http://www.ohgizmo.com/2008/10/24/private-explorer-is-like-a-camper-with-wings/
Comment by Dan on 18 November 2008:

I haven’t read all the way though all of this, so it may have been covered already.
Do some research into bus/entertainment transport companies, Nashville would be a good place to start.
Hire a company to provide transportation, and provide a driver.
This may sound harsh but unless you have experience with the equipment in question, you have no business jumping into one and taking off. You can’t just whip into any Denny’s and turn around.
Just my two cents, worth exactly what you payed for it!!!
Dan
Comment by Michael Powell on 29 December 2008:

Sorry to hear about the ambition thwarted. Still, its a great time to rationalise (rationalize in American).

First, you have the time imperative. Its to meet your maternal time-frame. So delaying isn’t an option.

Secondly, taking everything with you, including the kitchen sink, is not on. Its something us sixty-year old often feel the need to do. At your age you need to travel light. We came to your country last year for two weeks with just airline carry-on bags, and it was fine despite carrying our finest for a formal graduation at Yale, and lighter gear for a week in Santa Barbara.

Thirdly, be more ambitious. Your diet says it all, five types of restaurant food that can come from cartons. Its not a rich and varied diet we’d expect for a mother-in-practice. More fresh food needed, Cali!!

Fourthly, we understand that you have big country, but its a tiny part of the whole world, Drop it in the middle of Asia and you might never find it again. Steven Fry just finished a TV tour of all fifty states in a London Cab.

you can easily get broadband (along with electricity and clean water) all over, so where is the challenge? It makes a much more of a challenge, and an adventure, to travel south, say, towards Patagonia and see what explorers now need for communications when they get off the Interstate.

On the other hand I’m really glad that you want to look at your own backyard. Over in the UK lots of university graduates aged 21 take off around the world without bothering with the difficult bits. Its easier for them to head for New Zealand because they won’t have food or language worries. But nowhere compares with the fabulous fjords of Norway, or the Alpes. So I’m glad in many ways that you are looking close to home. And when you get to my age perhaps you’ll build a boat.

Just a thought.
Comment by David on 1 January 2009:

Why not try the bus idea but use sponsors to pay for the bus…
Use a company that does vehicle wraps and wrap the bus with all the sponsors you get and do a press release about the trip, who knows there may be a news worthy story and the sponsors could pay for the whole darn thing?
Comment by Conversion Van Guy on 4 March 2009:

I own an airstream B Van conversion. Tight quarters inside for anyone tall. Well built for an RV. I have also been inside an airstream trailer and they are top notch, and spendy even used.

Something to consider about the Van. I wouldn’t choose a sprinter to tow. I’d go for a Ford or Chev 1 ton and have it customized for your needs. Make sure you spend the money on steering stabilizer, the right tow package, and the best shocks you can buy. The ride a little rough compared to passanger vans, but my Flexsteel seating makes a big difference.

The biggest downside you will notice in a Van that is not customized properly is noise, everything seems to rattle. On long trips it absolutely wears you out. It’s also a pain to pull a trailer through metro areas during even minimal congestion as every car trys to squirm around you.

And as much as I love my Vans, my next rig is probably going to be a 30′ Safari Diesel Pusher. Look for one that is about 10 years old with low miles. Most big RV’s spend their lives parked so they have low miles, but they also have bad trannies even with low miles. I always plan on replacing the transmission on anything I buy used and always opt for the best Transmission Cooler for the vehicle.

Mechanically I like my Chev, Comfort I prefer the Ford. No more Dodge anything for me.

Hope you find the right fit for your needs. A big plus to the van/trailer is you can leave the trailer and travel light in cities.

Rethinking the Bus Idea

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